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February 23, 2010

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Comments

David Phillips

Alan,

Paraphrasing the words, made famous by Denny Green...It was what we thought it would be :-D

Good post...

John Elam

Alan,

Great analysis.

Jeff Parsons

I think the NAMB strategy has merit if they stick to the focus outlined in the report....ie, focus NAMB's attention away from the 1/3 of the country that gets most of NAMB's attention and refocus on the 2/3s of the country that is most lost. That's how many of the concerns regarding duplication and overlapping responsibilities can be resolved. The number of churches in the 2/3s area is low enough that this wouldn't be an issue for a few years.

As with any recommendation, implementation is the real issue. Refocusing NAMB can work if the implementation is done well...as far as assigning IMB people groups migrating to the US, I'm not sure how you pull that off without funding and efficient cooperation between NAMB, IMB, and state and local entities.....not something the SBC is known for...

Matt Svoboda

Alan,

I think a few of the proposals are good, small steps in the right direction.

I also think they are wise to not putting anything to massive in terms of change on the table yet. If they are going to propose anything MAJOR they need to get all their ducks in a row and only propose it when they HAVE to! I'm not saying we will see anything major, but I hope we do and if we do, I think its wise that nothing was put in this "progress report."

Todd

Alan,

Good post. My general concern is the fanfare and expense for the changes proposed. I know a group who have sounded these and more significant, substantive changes for no more than the cost of bandwidth and the time of setting up a free blog.

downshoredrift

Matt,

If they were just sharing things that they were thinking about, then just talking about some incremental change would be fine. But, I was excited about this because it was supposed to be a big deal and a lot was supposed to happen - I thought. Maybe the mistake was mine and all that the GCR was supposed to be was some minor shuffling. If so, then it is fine.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

aaron

If designated giving is counted as CP giving will different agencies/missionaries be allowed to actively solicit churches. An example would be BSU/BCM ministers are not currently allowed to solicit money from Churches. If their funding goes down because churches decide to give somewhere else should they not be allowed to openly ask/beg these churches for support. Will this not create a culture for para church and missionaries showing up at churches having to solicit funds constantly? Not having missionaries to do this is has been one of our biggest strengths.

downshoredrift

Good point, Aaron. In one way or another, that is bound to happen, either through direct solicitation or advertising. How would the CP survive this in the long run? Im only asking because they say that they wont change the CP.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

Heath Lloyd

All of this seems more "convention-ese", mumbo-jumbo, CP and agencies -talk. People desire/need bold, fresh, simple challenges. We need like an Old Testament prophet to come along with a "Thus saith the Lord" not agency and program talk.

Rick

My understanding was that designated giving would not count as CP giving but that "CP plus designated" would now count toward the new GC giving. I wonder if people will begin citing both statistics when describing a church's level of commitment to the work of Southern Baptists. Aaron's comments resonate with me as I feel this proposal moves us away from the cooperative method and closer to a societal method.

I agree with Alan's basic analysis that THUS FAR the report mostly shifts responsibilities and funding to different places without substantially changing very much at all. I especially agree with Alan's suggestion regarding component number three that confusion will erupt with so many entities overlapping each other in our efforts to reach major cities.

Frankly, my expectations for the task force were fairly low to begin with. I feared they might propose the kind of catastrophic change that would undermine the best missions funding strategy in world history. So far, they have not done so, but then again, the final report has not been presented.

I agree with Alan that "top-down" change is unlikely to spring from the denomination since our organizational structure's governing documents resemble the Articles of Confederation more than the Constitution. There is simply very little centralized authority, a fact we traditionally celebrate, focusing on grassroots change coming from the churches who in theory exist at the very top. Thus, "top-down" Baptist change must always come from local churches.

Philip Hannam

Since I am not part of the SBC nor have read the report nor have knowledge of how the whole thing functions--I'll just add one rhetorical question: "Is the SBC part of a larger Kingdom enterprise--or is it a kingdom to itself?

downshoredrift

Thanks for all of the comments. I am sure that many of the questions that I have will be answered. Like I said, I like a lot of what was said by the GCRTF, but I fear that they have a chance to really being reform and are just shooting for some reorganization. In the end, I hope it doesnt fall short of what could have happened.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

Rob

I hope the "core" values are Gospel centered, not hang ups over baptism, drinking, women teaching, storehouse tithing....etc.

Grady Bauer

I think the GCR is kind of like having a task force on the Titanic to decide who is going to captain the vessel...after it hit the iceberg....

Blake

Alan, good analysis. I wish more Southerners and people on the GCRTF would take seriously the concerns of those in the North that are already struggling to do the work all these Southerners dream about. The new entrance to Southern Seminary cost more than the entire budget of the Minnesota-Wisconsin Baptist Convention. How can I trust such people to come up with suggestions that will actually change anything when they're spending ridiculous amounts on gold nose rings for pigs? Add the following to your ammo.

http://www.baptistpress.com/BPnews.asp?ID=32435

downshoredrift

Blake,

Can you confirm the info about the entrance to Southern costing more than the entire budget for the Minnesota-Wisconsin convention? What are the numbers for both?
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

Blake

http://www.abpnews.com/content/view/4018/60/

Alan, the news article notes in the last paragraph the new pavilion cost $5.5 million. The operating budget for everything that happens within the MWBC is about $1.8 million.

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