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July 06, 2009

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Bob Cleveland

The "middle class" flight is middle class people, not middle class churches. And the reasons for a parent to take their kids to the suburbs to get them out of high crime areas, poor schools, etc are certainly valid.

Owing to the tendency I've seen, for SBC churches to talk about attending a "local" church .. and to plant churches all over, we've set up a "Catch-22" that really doesn't have an answer.

Certainly we need to be about ministering to people in the tougher areas. But if that area won't support a local church, then that seems to be what the church is limited to doing (along with such evangelism as it's led to do). And I'd surmise that most SBC churches aren't used-to-be-urban churches that moved out (ours certainly isn't), and that'd put an entirely different slant on going into urban areas to carry on the work. FBCP has enough to do right where it is.

Alan Cross

Bob,

I am not trying to put any kind of undue burden on individual families. I am not saying that people should individually sacrifice their children. I am saying, however, that the gospel is powerful and that we should not just cede other people to the enemy without collective engagement. Do our churches just exist to meet the needs of the people who happen to come? No, I think that we have a bigger purpose than that.

Bob Cleveland

Alan,

From what I've seen of Brooklyn Tabernacle, I think the long-term good is going to come from having people who live there involved in a local church that's already there. At Brooklyn Tab, nobody came in to minister to them .. it was a little local storefront church started by people living right there. And when it got going really good, they moved to bigger facilities in the neighborhood, and finally to an old (but huge) theater building right downtown.

The same is true in reverse with Riverchase Baptist here. Several churches tried to "plant a church" there and it didn't work. We finally went and found some folks IN Riverchase who wanted to start a Baptist Church, and formed a Sunday School class just for them.

It worked, albeit Riverchase is an upper-class ghetto.....

Alan Cross

Good examples, Bob. I would be willing to guess that the issues that people face in Pelham are not that different from what people face in inner city Birmingham. We just get more accepting of our own sins and don't see them the way that we see the sins of others who might have a different culture or economic status than us. My point is just that the people of God, wherever we find ourselves, must not retreat to places that seem to be more comfortable. We must engage with the world around us and be salt and light. I find it interesting that Jesus called US the light of the world. If we don't shine in dark places, how will people ever see the light?

Bob Cleveland

Alan,

100% in agreement.

Andrew Hicks

Alan,

I'm coming into this conversation a bit late.
But I think your statement, "we should not just cede other people to the enemy without collective engagement" might be the quote of the year on your blog. It covers this topic (white/middle class flight) as well as missional living, the great commission resurgence, church planting, and overseas missions in general.

Well well put.
"we should not just cede other people to the enemy without collective engagement" -- Alan Cross

I may put that at the bottom of all my e-mails.

Jordan 5

very cool space! I love your taste and it looks like it'd be so much fun to poke around in there... I used to live in DE but am now in VA, but if I ever go back that way to visit family I'd love to see it in person :)

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