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May 15, 2007

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Comments

Kevin

Well said.

Florence Young

Very good comments. Thanks.

Florence in KY

Robin Foster

Alan

Could you at least wait until after he is buried before you are critical of him?

Alan Cross

Robin,

I am sorry that you thought I was being critical. That was not my intention. I did not know him nor was I affected by his ministry very much - I really knew little about his ministry apart from his public pronouncements. He was a very distant figure for me and I only really heard anything about him when he was being interviewed on CNN or something talking about homosexuals or abortion. I was discussing his political legacy and the results of the Christian Conservative movement of which he was a leader, which has affected us all. The death of a leader of a movement is generally a time that people talk about the legacy of that movement. That is what I was doing. I don't intend to be more critical after he was buried because I wasn't trying to be critical now. I have read where others said that he was a wonderful man and I will not dispute that as I have no knowledge of what he was personally like whatsoever.

Kevin

I think Falwell did a LOT of good things, including ministries to drug addicts, single moms, a flourishing church, a christian college, etc.

I think the problem is that we (thirty somethings and younger) were probably more aware of him during some of the "low points" of his public comments, which came later in his life (9-11, teletubbies, etc).

Hopefully he can be remembered more for his ministry and less for his politics. I do think he was a godly man. Christ would be most honored if we learned both from Falwell's victories and what we may perceive as failures/mistakes.

Jack Maddox

Allan Said

" realize that my comments here could be taken negatively regarding the whole man."

do YA THINK??????????????

Jack

Alan Cross

No, I don't think, Jack. I realize that some people could take it that way because any statements besides praise and glory for some people are considered as out of bounds. But, I will say it again: My comments were not meant to be a personal attack or be negatively directed to the person of Dr. Falwell. I know that he loved Jesus, was a good husband and father, and was very sincere in his ideals. I only disagree with his political approach.

He was the leader of a movement that was before my time. I knew little about it except for the effects that it had on the churches and Christians that I knew, which was significant. My most personal memory of Dr. Falwell occurred right after 9/11 when he was being interviewed by Pat Robertson. I was full of grief flipping through the channels and I saw these two Christian leaders talking about the reasons behind the attack. Dr. Falwell blamed the gays, abortionists, and the ACLU for the attack, citing their activity as why God took His hand off America. I was stunned. That affected me greatly, and when I think of Jerry Falwell, that moment most prominently comes to mind. He later apologized, but I think that he had that initial reaction because he saw the things that happened to this country through the lense of his political and social movement. That is what I disagree with. I could forgive him for his statements, but that was a situation that spoke deeply to me about the flaws of the Religious Right. My desire is that we learn from that, and while emulating his good characteristics, we learn from the things that he had to apologize for.

My goal was to talk about the social and political legacy of the movement of Christian Conservatives that he helped to launch, not to criticize him personally. I obviously failed in communicating that effectively, and again, I apologize.

Nathan Bradfield

My comments are primarily directed to the effectiveness of his political legacy for the rest of us.

I gotcha, Alan. And that is what I want to address.

I think this sums up well what you are trying to convey here:

My point is that Jerry Falwell was known for trying to change America primarily through the political arena, and because of that emphasis, I feel that he failed. The negative lesson is, when our energy is focused in the wrong direction, we can also cause harm and weaken the message of Jesus that is not always compatible with the politics of the Religious Right.

Let us not give up doing good and trying to change our nation. But, let us do it with a prophetic voice, not beholden to political processes. Jesus is bigger than political parties...i>

First of all, politics was not his primary vehicle of change. Kevin, above, said something interesting about us in our 30's +/- knew of the more politically active Falwell and not how he started and ended up there. He was a pastor and grew a Christian university to one of the largest private schools in the country.

A nice segue into my second point, Christians focusing attention in politics is not necessarily wrong. In fact, I think it's absolutely necessary that we continue on with what Falwell helped launch many years ago. And here's why:

Civil government is established by God, therefore it is a legitimate area of activity for Christians (Matt 22:21, Rom 13:1, 1 Tim. 2:1-4, 1 Pet 2:13-17). There was a need for civil government when man sinned and became a threat to other men (Gen. 4:23). Politics is the process of electing the best men to office to protect law-abiding citizens against the lawless (Ex 18, Deut. 1:15, 1 Tim.3:1-7). Soon after the flood, God formalized civil gov't by, as Martin Luther wrote, "sharing his power with man" and "granting him power over life and death among men" (Gen. 9:4-6). To speak out against the the principle of political involvment is to call God's wisdom into question and all despots to rule.

Certainly Falwell was not perfect. I don't know about the legitimacy of this, but a friend of mine said Falwell once referred to the women of an all-girls college, which his daughter attended, near Liberty as the "whores on the hill."

Politics, since people are involved, are as dirty as running businesses, families, even churches. Christians cannot excuse themselves from it to focus only on ministry.

We must have both. Balance is the key. Hopefully, Alan, you'll agree that Christians focusing solely on politics will fail as badly as those who focus only on ministry. We must have the right combination of both.

Instead of turning our backs on Falwell's failings, let's learn from his mistakes and continue on with his dream, which is every Christian's dream, to evangelize and win souls.

Love you, brother.

Nathan Bradfield

From my comment above, these two lines need "quotes" around them as they are from Alan's post:

"My comments are primarily directed to the effectiveness of his political legacy for the rest of us."

and

"My point is that Jerry Falwell was known for trying to change America primarily through the political arena, and because of that emphasis, I feel that he failed. The negative lesson is, when our energy is focused in the wrong direction, we can also cause harm and weaken the message of Jesus that is not always compatible with the politics of the Religious Right.

Let us not give up doing good and trying to change our nation. But, let us do it with a prophetic voice, not beholden to political processes. Jesus is bigger than political parties..."

Sorry.

Alan Cross

Nathan,

Here's my basic political philosophy for Christians: Be involved in politics, do the best you can, bring your faith straight into the public sphere, trust God to make a difference, do not be seduced by the lies of power, do not compromise your convictions for favor from those in power, always be prophetic instead of political, and do not put your faith in politics or power, but in God. If you do those things, you'll turn out alright and we will all be the better for it.

Overall, Nathan, I agree with you. I wholeheartedly believe that Christians should be involved in the political process AND every other area of life. We should bring our faith into it and transform those arenas. We should not retreat from anything. My point is that I saw a heavy focus on politics as though it was the answer by many in the 80's and 90's. I am not saying that we should abandon politics - goodness no! Rather, we should be involved but not put our faith in it. No one would admit to doing that, but I do think that it happened. I think that we are seeing the balance that you talk about return as Christians are remaining involved in politics and are also becoming more involved in social action. I think that we are starting to put our time, energy, and effort, where our mouth has been, so to speak, with Katrina relief being a prime example. My prayer is that we can combine the best of Falwell's political activism with a strong spiritual, social, and economic approach to returning our nation back to faith in God. I am just calling for a more holistic way.

As far as politics not being his primary vehicle of change, from what I have learned since I wrote my post, Dr. Falwell was very involved with helping people and ministering to those in need. I never heard those stories when he was alive as his legacy was primarily shown as one of political activism. Like I said, I did not follow his ministry or Liberty University much, and many of my opinions were formed by his public pronouncements. He was definitely KNOWN more for his politics than anything else, and that is what I am reacting to. That fact teaches me that the impression that people have of me often speaks louder than the things that I do or things that I stand for.

Overall, I don't disagree with anything you said, Nathan. I've probably learned more about Dr. Falwell SINCE I've written this post than I knew before, and for that, my dear readers, I am thankful!

Jack Maddox

I believe the response from some of us who perhaps did know Dr. Falwell somewhat (and may I add perhaps also agree with your assesment of some of his political activity and aproach to civic change) is not so much because of what you had to say, but simply perhaps the timing of your saying it. I for one do not believe you meant any thing undue or unkind, but perhaps a week or so would have been prudent and worth the wait. Then again, maybe not : )

Jack

Alan Cross

That is well taken, Jack. I was not trying to be disrespectful with the timing, but in retrospect I understand your point. When I read about his death I started thinking about his legacy and some thoughts arose regarding the movement he lead and the lessons that we can learn from it. It seemed appropriate because I had no emotional attachment to him as he was always a very far off figure for me. But, I understand that others feel differently.

Nathan Bradfield

Well said, Alan. I concur with your assessment, especially Christian involvement with Katrina relief efforts.

I can see how you would only know of Falwell from his political side. That's all the media is going to show you. Many atheist blogs have posted with glee how glad they are he is dead and included many of their favorite quotes of his. Of course, they are taken out of context and made to relate to the pro-homosexual etc agenda. But this is what the media wants you to see.

Thanks for responding. See you tomorrow night. By the way, did you link to me yet???

Jack Maddox

Dr. Falwell also had a great sence of humor...two thoughts come to mind...he would imitate Dennis Swanbergs imitation of him...priceless...and the time he bungied from the top of the vines center in response to a goal met during senior week by the student body...he bungied about 100 feet in his suit and all....EPIC!!!!!!

See you soon Dr. Jerry...until then....

Grace
Jack

Beth D

Sorry I'm late,

My head swirls with comments.

First, I'm mad at you, because once again you've reached into my head and written what I couldn't even verbalize.

Second, oh, how my uncles would disagree!

I know next to nothing about Falwell, my eye-roll comes from a different direction--although one you mentioned in the post. It's a pretty common situation, isn't it? A personal calling from God turns into a much-needed, successful ministry. But, one day, something changes. Like a college professor, the minister starts to preach not only his calling but that his calling should be of utmost importance to the exclusion of all else. Politics and media become the easiest way to influence the greatest numbers and it becomes a spiral from there.

My sweet, wonderful uncles, the poorest Republicans on the planet, do believe in a Christian state--whether the country wants it or not. I tend to think it's a bit like demanding your sick neighbor stop coughing instead of fixing him some chicken soup.

I don't know what place Christians as a group have in politics other than personal calling by God. I do wish leaders of Christian ministries would be more reticent in turning their calling into a Pied-Piper song, calling others into something they should probably stay out of.

Kyle

Please pardon me for fly-by commenting as I read through your recent posts. I feel like I'm trolling, though I hope I'm not.

Your line that urban poverty is the incubator of teen pregnancy seems a little insubstantial. Surely there have been other societies that were poorer than the urban poor, yet had drastically lower teen pregnancy rates. I'm not saying that there's no relation, or that urban poverty isn't an evil that ought to be alleviated, but surely poverty isn't the chief predictor for illegitimate pregnancy.

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