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November 02, 2006

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Kevin

The original NT church was born into a world full of cultural differences and mixed up religious ideas. Did this keep those early Christians from turning the world upside down?

Strange comments indeed.

Wayne Smith IN HIS NAME

Alan,

Great Post, and welcome back.

The problem with these SBC politicians is that they don’t know anything about revival. They need to search their Hearts and ask for forgiveness. REVIVAL starts in each Christians Heart. When we are all on the same page with the Holy Spirit directing us, we will have a Revival.

In His Name
Wayne Smith

Joe Kennedy

You'd think the gospel should have stopped with the Jews. I mean Americans. I mean Southern Baptists. I mean Anglo Southern Southern Baptist Americans. Who are not Calvinists. White Southern Southern Baptist non-Calvinist Americans who only sing hymns (and don't have private prayer languages and were baptized by an authorized White Southern Southern Baptist non-Calvinist American who only sings hymns...).

Marty Duren

Alan-
This is bizarre to say the least. When I read that I was just shocked--talk about not being able to separate politics from theology.

Maybe he forgot to add "multiculturalism" on his list of things to change. "Everyone back on the boat if you don't speak English; we need to have a revival."

Jeff Moody

"We should pray that God would supernaturally intervene and bring a national revival to our midst. That is the only thing which is going to save this great country. The pagan religions living among us know nothing about revival but Christians do and we should pray and pray that God would bless us with a heaven sent national revival."

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the nature of revival that God supernaturally intervenes and brings revival to the hearts of people?

I agree with Alan that revival is a work of God, not man.

Apparently, revival is only for white, southern baptist, non-calvinist, traditional pastors (wait, I know the Jonathan Edwards was a Calvinist and a congregationalist), so this theory does not work.

Lary Burton

The reason Southern Baptist have not had a revival in America has nothing to do with what we wear, the diversity of our culture or even our worship styles. The blame lies with the leadership of the SBC itself. They are so divisive and tolerate no diversity in their leadership. They are so afraid of anyone who disagrees, those who might have an original thought (someone who thought of something and voiced it before they did). They are scared of real intellectual freedom, freedom of speech, the pursuit of happiness (well, anything allowed in our Constitution) that they have usurped control of the SBC and now want everyone to be just like them.I RATHER BE JUST LIKE JESUS. I'm not perfect, but I do the best I can. Maybe if I followed the Baptist Faith and Message 2000, more closely, I'd be revived. But a lot of that goes against the Bible. I'll take Jesus and the Bible any day over the leadership of the SBC and the BF&M 2000.

Paul Burleson

Alan,

I have to admit I agree with much of Harrell's frustration about people coming to our shores not becoming Americans. I read his entire article and found some agreement early on. That's the American citizen in me.

But when he came to the "christian nation" thing, he began to lose me. I'm grateful for our history, including our religious history, but desire not to americanize christianity. Some of our Founding Fathers were christian and some were not. But the understanding of natural law, which has it's basis in the character of God, was the primary philosophy, not a true conversion to Christ.

I also find it very strange to say that multiculturalism stops revival. Two things. One is, if that were true, the christians of the New Testament era would have NEVER seen revival. But the record indicates a perpetual state of the working of the Spirit in revival for someone, some city, somewhere in Asia Minor, etc.

The other thing is I think the only thing that may, in fact, hinder revival is our hunger for it, or lack thereof. Matt. 5 says "Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after THE righteousness, [the definite article is in the original] [this speaks of a hunger for the person of Christ IMHO] for they [and they alone] will be filled"

This is saying, if I understand it correctly, that God works to the level of our appetite for Him, not to the level of our activity, even religious activity. I don't think there are many in any culture really hungry fo HIM, as evidenced by our lack of love for the brethren. Just my thoughts.

Paul B.

David Rogers

The message of the Gospel cannot be contained with any one culture. Christ has come to redeem people from all cultures. If this is not true, then world missions is really imperialism. And I don't want to be any part of that.

I am in shock. This guy is the Chairman of the Executive Committee? If he really represents the direction we are heading, I may need to find a new platform for spreading the Good News sooner than what I had imagined.

Alan Cross

Thanks, everyone, for your comments. Update: Perhaps I'm dense, but does reading another of Rev. Harrell's "Commentaries," Think About This (http://www.abilene1774.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=63&Itemid=67), make you think that he wishes that a "Christian" America looked more like a Muslim fundamentalist state than not? At the end, he gives a nod to trusting God, prayer, and being merciful, but the whole tone of the article makes it seem like that the Liberals are lucky that Christians aren't running around executing those who dishonor God. This guy seems pretty angry that his culture is being taken away from him and he wants people to toe the line. It just seems like the Chairman of the SBC ExComm should have a more missional, long-term view. Would Dr. Patterson think of any of this as being dangerous doctrine for the churches?

Kevin Bussey

I don't get his thinking. Our community is 50% minority. What am I to do just ignore them and go back to the old SBC way of doing ministry? No, God put us here to minister to the people here. Sad, story indeed. Thanks Alan, great to have you back.

Paul Burleson

Alan,

Uuhhmm,I think this may be over the top. It's one thing to have concerns as a citizen of this country about political issues, but another totally different thing to confuse this country's concerns with the gospel. Oh my...

Paul B.

Paul Burleson

By the way...Might it be that a Sovereign God is, perhaps, bringing the field to us for evangelism. It's a little bit like a Christian complaining that "everyone at the office is lost, I'm the only Christian working there." Well get busy. :)

Paul B.

Bob Cleveland

This one is a REAL hoot!

1) Revival IS a sovereign act of an omnipotent God. If it isn't, then it isn't. How anyone can make such a statement as Mr. Harrell's, I have no earthly idea.

2) "Revival" as mentioned in 2 Chronicles 7:14 has a "caveat" immediately beforehand:

2 Chr 7:13-14: When I shut up the heavens so that there is no rain, or command locusts to devour the land or send a plague among my people, if my people .....(NIV).

Perhaps our leadership will see revival if they realize and confess they have led us into the desert, locusts and plagues. I do not see that happening.

3) We're too proud of all that "we" have accomplished as the "World's Largest Protestant Denomination" and the "World's Largest Missionary-Sending Organization" to realize that results on the field are not tantamount to God's approval of us, but rather indicative of His incomparable love for the lost. So if they don't know they's broke, they don't know they's needin' fixin'.

4) Would Mr. Harrell surmise God erred in planting the first NT church where He did, in a place where the folks outside, listening to the birthing celebration inside, spoke 15 different languages?

UNbelievable.

Paul

So revival takes place only in a proper American cultural context??? I can't begin to describe how much this makes my head and heart hurt.

How much of this do we see through our American cultural grid rather than from a biblical grid. When the OT made provisions for the stranger and alien do those texts tell us whether those principles only apply to strangers and aliens who are legal, or did they even make the distinction between legal and illegal aliens?

As the church should we be making that distinction? And as Paul B wrote, could it be that God is bringing the nations to us? How could that possibly be a bad thing????

Ugh! I need to go take some Tylenol.

Gary Snowden

Paul B. and Paul both stole my thunder before I could respond. I've been participating the past 3 days in the West Africa Summit that the IMB sponsored along with the Missouri Bapt. Convention in St. Charles, MO, so my blog reading has been seriously curtailed. Clearly we ought to give thanks to the Lord that He is bringing the nations to us since we've not always been so willing to take the gospel to them. Many who come to the U.S., especially university students, are the cream of the crop and those who will undoubtedly be national leaders in their countries as they return. What an awesome possibility of impacting them with the gospel while they're here! How anyone can be so short-sighted as to see that as a hindrance to revival and the movement of God's Spirit is baffling to me.

SelahV

Marty, I agreed with most everything you said. Right up till the last paragraph which began with "apparently..." I don't think revival only comes to those folks you mentioned: "white, southern baptist, non-Calvinist...etc."

I'm not a Calvinist (as far as I can tell by what I'm reading about Calvinists), so I guess that makes me a non-Calvinist. And I really believe some of the folks I've gotten to know via blog-land, who say they are Calvinists, can have revival in their hearts and in their churches and in their land. We all just need to follow the instructions given to Solomon in the night. SelahV

Tim Sweatman

"But today, if we have a Christian revival, much of society will be unmoved. Because of our multiculturalism, which in large part expresses itself in the religious realm, large segments of society will remain unaffected or uncaring about the revival. If the Christians were revived, that is only a portion of the societal makeup. Much of the nation would be unmoved."

If we had a genuine Christian revival, society would be affected, but not by the enactment of "Christian laws" or the establishment of a Christian hegemony. A genuine revival would have a radical effect on society because we would be living the gospel rather than arguing over it, we would be sharing our faith in word AND in deed, we would be known for our love and compassion, and we would be seeking first His Kingdom and His righteousness rather than chasing after the things of this world.

Jeff Moody

A celebration of multi-culturalism:

I am in Boise, ID and I flipped to the Spanish speaking network that was showing kung fu movies.

I, the English speaking person, actually watched a chinese kung fu movie dubbed in spanish.

Bryan Riley

I think that such statements are sin at best and heretical at worst. That is shameful and should be dealt with.

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