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November 06, 2006

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Comments

John Stickley

Great post, Alan. I'll give it a big old heartfelt Baptist AMEN. :)

Keith Lucas

PREACH ON BROTHER!

Tim Sweatman

Alan,

Nice historical summary. I'm looking forward to your subsequent posts on this subject.

David Rogers

I've been waiting for this ever since a few weeks ago when you let on you would eventually be posting more thoroughly on this topic. This is a great start! I will be closely following what you have to say in the coming days...

Great to hear the good news about Caelan as well!

Blessings,

David

Strider

I look forward to your next posts. I find very few true cesessionist in SBC life these days. Most pick and choose when it is comfortable to believe in miracles and when it is not. I have gone against advice and spoken openly when I am back home about the ways that God has miraculously worked among us overseas. Only one man has approached me afterward and said he disagreed with what I was saying. But then again that is one of the charactoristics of what you are saying isn't it? It is fine for most SBers to accept that the miraculous occurs out there somewhere but we know darn well that he doesn't do that here! Uh huh. I am pretty uncomfortable about telling God what he can and can not do. Keep writing Alan!

Bryan Riley

Well said. I look forward to more. My wife and I have committed to doing a study of the Holy Spirit in scripture, looking to the Word alone. I am absolutely a continualist and believe the Word clearly supports that, but I want to understand better what His word says about the work of the Holy Spirit in our lives. Perhaps we can discuss it at some point after we have done some of our study. Praise God for His love endures forever and praise Him that He is the same yesterday, today, and forever! May we always live to glorify and magnify His nature and character.

GuyMuse

A timely piece with far-reaching applications around the world. This is an uncomfortable subject for many of us, but one that needs to be brought to the forefront of dialogue. I thought you did an excellent job in introducing the subject and giving us a good background as to how we have come to the point where we are today. Looking forward to future posts on this subject!

Tim Rogers

Brother Alan,

Great post. I enjoyed your historical documentation nad analysis. I agree with you on the analysis of Scriptural interpretation and how it was relegated to a science. I too believe that we have lost some of what Scripture tells us by this purley scientific study.

Having said that, I know that you know that I know we do not agree completely.:>)

While I do struggle with my view (you term it a cessassionist view, I term it a view of continualist, but no proof of some gifts continuing based on what I have seen described as those gifts) falling into this scientific category, I do believe that God does not want us to just be open to every wind of doctrine. You refer to yourself this way; "I am a continualist. I believe that God still gives supernatural gifts to His children and that He is working today, just as He worked in the 1st Century Church in the Book of Acts. I do not believe in a separate baptism in the Holy Spirit with tongues as the sign," which we know has been established as a Pentecostal Doctrine. However, one cannot read the Scripture as you have described a reading of the sacred text, without seeing a separate incident of a Holy Spirit Baptism. The Book of Acts makes it clear that the a separate incident of the Holy Spirit's Baptism resulted in a gift of tongues.

Maybe you will deal with this in another post and I look forward to that time. Keep up the great research.

Blessings,
Tim

Alan Cross

Tim,

Something interesting about Pentecostal conclusions: at the point of defining their own doctrine of the Holy Spirit and Spirit baptism, they use a very technical and systematic approach. They do with the tongues verses what the Church of Christ does with the baptism verses to prove baptismal regeneration. They chop Acts up into case studies on how the Holy Spirit was poured out and they ascribe an initial evidence of speaking in tongues to each example (Acts 2,8,10,19). A narrative reading of Acts, which is what I am proposing, will lead you to see that there is no uniform evidence of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit other that an infilling with the power of God (Acts 1:5-8).

The Holy Spirit indwells all believers and we receive the Holy Spirit at the point that we receive salvation. However, we are all filled with the Holy Spirit in varying degrees based on our prayers and availability to the Lord. This infilling with the power of the Holy Spirit, that is available to all Christians everyday (Acts 4:31; Ephesians 5:18), is what I believe Pentecostals experience. Because of the teaching of tongues being the sign of a separate baptism in the Holy Spirit, many have concluded that they have received this based on the experience of speaking in tongues. I do not believe that the Bible supports this and it is a classic case of letting your experience dictate your understanding of Scripture.

In the same way, those who disavow tongues and the miraculous gifts of the Spirit because they have not experienced them are guilty of the same thing. They too, make an argument from a LACK of experience instead of from God's Word. They then buttress their argument with choppy hermenuetics that does violence to the contextual meaning of the Scripture. That is my opinion, however.

Stephen Pruett

This is a great post, and I am not surprised having seen your posts on other blogs. Have you heard the recent reports that brain scans of people speaking in tongues indicate that activity in the speech centers in the frontal lobes of the brain is greatly diminished? The scienctists concluded that the physical evidence is consistent with the perception of these people that they are not in direct volitional control of what they are speaking (http://www.world-science.net/othernews/061101_tongues.htm). I am a scientist and a Christian, so I find these results interesting on many levels. I do not like using science to "prove" faith, because science is entirely provisional and revisable. However, it is interesting that there is scientific support indicating that tongue speaking is not acting. If nothing else, it should make people who state that they are certain that mordern manifestations of tongue speaking are not of God at least think more about the possibility that they are wrong. How this fits into your very interesting analysis of the philosophical underpinnings of different strands of Christianity has given me a headache, so I have resolved to follow Scarlett O'hara's advice and think about it tomorrow.

Bart Barber

Alan,

I think it inaccurate (at least with regard to myself but perhaps also with regard to many others) to suggest that anyone who thinks "hamantahahnehrnea" is not the same as the biblical phenomenon of speaking in tongues is necessarily someone who has completely rejected the supernatural and miraculous. I think you are reprinting caricature.

David Rogers

Bart,

Since you are "speaking in tongues" publicly here, I think I had better have a go at "interpreting." It looks like you are trying to say "I wanna have a hernia." :)

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